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The Assassination of Gianni Versace, All Too Human exhibition, Debut novelist Mick Kitson

We hear about the second series of the American Crime Story television franchise which began in 2016 with The People Versus OJ Simpson. John Wilson is joined in the studio by novelist turned screenwriter TomRob Smith. He has written the next instalment – The Assassination of Gianni Versace – which dramatises the events surrounding the murder of the Italian fashion designer outside his Miami home in 1997. | 26 February 2018

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All Access: Mac Quayle

Emmy-winning composer Mac Quayle joins us for an All Access interview that takes us into his studio to discuss his background, his work, and his approach as a storyteller. Mac talks about his path to becoming a composer, including how he started in music production in New York City before making the decision to move to Los Angeles. Hear Mac talk about his years working for Michael Levine and Cliff Martinez, and what he learned from those years that he still carries today. We delve deep into some of Mac’s most popular scores to TV Series such as American Crime Story, American Horror Story and his Emmy-winning music from Mr. Robot. Mac even demos some of his themes from The Assassination Of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story. Hear Mac also discuss his amazing working relationship with Ryan Murphy and Brad Falchuk, which has resulted in him becoming their go-to composer. Mac Quayle is one of TV’s most in-demand composers and it was great to have him for this fun and insightful All Access. | 24 February 2018

American Crime Story writer: People only know part of Versace’s story

In summer 1997, Gianni Versace was on top of the world. His fashion empire was worth $807 million, encompassing 130 boutiques worldwide. After a period of ill health the Italian designer was fit and happy. And, after coming out in the early Nineties, he was content in a long-term relationship with Antonio D’Amico, a model. Life in his mansion on Miami Beach was good.

Then, on July 15, Versace, aged 50, was shot dead in a seemingly random attack on a morning walk along Ocean Drive. His killer, Andrew Cunanan, committed suicide with the same gun eight days later — it transpired that Versace was his fifth murder victim. The fashion world was in mourning.

But the wider world, while shocked by this senseless killing, soon moved on — in one sense, the loss was eclipsed by the death, six weeks later, of Diana, Princess of Wales.

That might have been that, had it not been, 20 years later, for the current TV vogue for true-crime dramas, and for the efforts of London novelist-turned-screenwriter Tom Rob Smith.

Smith, author of the thrillers Child 44 and The Farm, and creator of 2015’s BBC2 thriller London Spy (starring Ben Whishaw), wrote the scripts for The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story. It’s the second volume in the US television anthology series overseen by the hugely prolific and successful Ryan Murphy (Glee).

The eight-part dramatisation, coming to BBC2 on Wednesday, stars Édgar Ramírez (Zero Dark Thirty) as Versace, singer-turned-actor Ricky Martin as his boyfriend, Glee alumnus Darren Criss as the disturbed and damaged Cunanan, and Penélope Cruz as the designer’s sister, Donatella. It’s the follow-up to The People vs O.J. Simpson, the 2016 mini-series which was a ratings and critical smash, winning nine Emmys and two Golden Globes.

“With O.J., everyone knew all the minutiae,” says Smith. “They had to unpick that to tell a story people didn’t know. This is a story where people only know a fragment.”

Hence, he says, beginning his drama at the end: the murder, told via an eight-minute opening scene in the first episode. Beyond hooking viewers with that graphic, curtains-up incident, Smith wanted to “get to the heart of Versace”. His primary resource was Vulgar Favours, a book about the assassination by journalist Maureen Orth.

“There isn’t that 500-page, warts-and-all biography on Versace. You feel that gap because he’s such an extraordinary figure. The things he overcame, how he changed fashion — it’s so monumental. You can’t imagine Alexander McQueen without Versace.”

Filming took place in Miami, much of it in Versace’s home, which is now a hotel. Veracity was key to the production, meaning they wouldn’t shoot in Los Angeles.

“The sea is different in Florida, the beaches are different,” notes Smith, 39, gesturing to the view: we’re talking in a hotel by the Pacific in Santa Monica, where Smith lives with his partner, Ben Stephenson. Formerly Controller of BBC Drama Commissioning, he now heads the television division at J.J. Abrams’s nearby Bad Robot production company. The couple have been here together for two years, and Smith — dressed in pricey-looking, beach-ready shorts and shirt — jokes that the kale juice he’s ordered “is very California”.

“The palm trees are different too,” he continues. “But it turned out that Versace preferred LA palm trees — they’re thinner and straighter. Miami ones are rugged. So he had LA ones driven across the country and planted at his home. I guess they’re easier to organise in a line around a pool.”

By coincidence, cast and crew were filming in the house on the 20th anniversary of the murder. “It was a strange time. One of the things I’m proud of is we celebrate Versace — we try and reclaim this sense of his legacy.”

“I wanted to contrast Cunanan — someone who is full of potential but has these missteps, and ends up this destructive suicidal, terrorist-like force, ripping down other people’s success — and someone who has just as many obstacles in life, yet builds this vast empire and has this loving relationship.”

It’s surely, then, a frustration that the Versace family have denounced the drama as a “fiction”. But Smith expected as much — they made similar comments when Orth’s book was published. Their stance put Cruz — a personal friend of Donatella — in a tricky position.

“Penélope had a real sense of the language of Donatella. She was involved in changing some of the line structure in the script, and the syntax.”

“We’re giving Penélope a heroic role. Donatella understands in this story that Cunanan is not just trying to take her brother’s life — it’s an attack on his legacy. And he’s trying to destroy the company. If this information comes out about her brother, then the company is in danger.”

“We’re not telling that as a piece of gossip. We’re doing it as this interesting narrative that this one man overcame that [illness]. But then he was struggling with the fact that if he told the world he had HIV/Aids, the company would have been worth nothing. This devaluation of all his life’s work — and what an injustice that is.”

Does the story have resonance for Smith? “This is a story of how you survive if you’re gay. Homophobia makes you think: how will I navigate the world? Growing up I never had a moral shame about being gay, I just thought I couldn’t be a success — all these avenues would be closed down to me.”

Smith, who was educated at Dulwich College and Cambridge, didn’t come out until he was 22, working as a storyliner on Family Affairs. An actress asked if he was gay. He said no. “I thought, ‘I can’t have other people know me better than I know myself’.”

He has, then, empathy for the Versaces and how the assassination of Gianni — and the secrets it revealed — impacted on the family. And he’s hopeful that Donatella might still come round.

“If they’re not going to watch it — which is completely understandable — hopefully they’ll understand that there is real love for them and their brother who achieved so much. I’d hope at least they’d hear that from someone — maybe even Penélope.”

American Crime Story writer: People only know part of Versace’s story

Cody Fern on the Unique Career Path That Led Him to ‘The Assassination of Gianni Versace’

From executive producer Ryan Murphy, the FX limited series The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story illustrates what happened when the cross-country path of destruction of spree-killer Andrew Cunanan (chillingly played by Darren Criss) landed on the steps of the 1997 South Beach residence of Gianni Versace (Edgar Ramirez), where the international fashion icon was murdered. Based on the book Vulgar Favors by Maureen Orth, the series examines how fame, wealth and failed ambition collided with homophobia and prejudice, and ultimately delayed law enforcement’s search for one of the FBI’s 10 Most Wanted.

During this 1-on-1 interview with Collider, Australian actor Cody Fern talked about the crazy career path he’s currently on, playing David Madson (spree killer Andrew Cunanan’s former lover and second victim) on Gianni Versace, the incredible experience of having Darren Criss and Finn Wittrock as scene partners, how working with Ryan Murphy changed him, as an actor, going from American Crime Story to House of Cards, the pressure of joining an acclaimed series in its final season, working on projects with a high level of secrecy, and why he’s already started writing and directing.

Collider: You were great in The Tribes of Palos Verdes and you’ve been a real stand-out in The Assassination of Gianni Versace. And next, you’re going to be in the final season of House of Cards, which is a very intense series. It seems like it must be a good time to be you, right now.

CODY FERN: Yeah, I’m enjoying my life, at the moment. But, it’s all just work. The thing that I’m grateful for is that I get to work.

When you think about what you thought your acting career might be, what’s it like to line up roles like this, working with the level of talent that you’ve been working with?

FERN: It’s crazy! All I can say is that I’m just so, so, so grateful. I think it all begins with great writing. You’re only as good as the writing, and I’ve had the great fortune of working on great writing, so that really, really helps. But, yeah, it’s wild. It’s really wild! I’m just taking it one day at a time, and putting my head down and doing the work. I’m trying to think of it less like a big role and look at it more like a microcosm of, “I’m just going to do this amount of work and this is what I’m going to do to prepare for it.” It’s so crazy to work with Ryan Murphy, and then work in the David Fincher world with Robin Wright. She’s so phenomenal. She’s just an incredible actress and an even better human being. I’m flippin’ out!

What’s it like to go from the set of Gianni Versace to the set of House of Cards? Is it nerve-wracking to be a part of the final season of a show?

FERN: I don’t think that it’s nerve-wracking, knowing that it’s the final season of the show. I think that it’s exhilarating, especially because I’ve watched House of Cards since Season 1 and I’ve been a genuine fan of the show. The most nerve-wracking part is the fact that I have so loved the show. It’s the same with Ryan Murphy. So, the nerves, for me, don’t come so much from being on set, but from being a fan, and that’s difficult to reconcile. I was on set for House of Cards, and we weren’t shooting, but I walked into the Oval Office and it was so overwhelming because it was something that I’d watched for the last five years. As an actor, it’s beyond a dream. You say, “I wanna be on House of Cards one day,” and you really hope and pray that you might get an audition, and then you might get in the room and, if you’re very fortunate, you might get a small role. I don’t think you ever think, “Oh, my god, I’m gonna be a new season regular on this show that I’ve loved for so long.” I guess I’m more nervous, as a fan of the show, than I am for any other reason. The reason I say that is that both sets are incredibly down to earth, supportive, creative, and all about the work. With House of Cards, Frank Pugliese has written an episode and Melissa Gibson has written an episode. Those are phenomenal writers, in their own right. With Versace, Tom Rob Smith wrote an episode, and I got to work with (director) Daniel Minahan. You’re so supported that any nerves go out the window because you know everyone is there to do their best work, and everybody is supporting you and rooting for you.

Does it feel different when you walk onto a set where everyone is there for the first time, like with Gianni Versace, as opposed to walking onto a set with an established rhythm, like with House of Cards?

FERN: Yes, absolutely! There’s a lot of pressure. It’s a lot of pressure, but I feel supported and excited by it. I think nerves are part and parcel of working as an actor. You can either work against them, or you can embrace them, and I very much embrace them. The nerves are excitement, in a strange way. If you weren’t nervous than you’d be in trouble.

House of Cards seems like it’s the most secretive of the projects that you’ve worked on. What’s it like to be a part of something that’s so secretive?

FERN: It was the same with Versace. It was so highly under wraps. People only figured out that I was in the show when the show started airing. Ryan is very specific about what information he wants revealed and when. That was crazy because Versace had started airing and nobody even knew that I was in the show. I had signed an NDA contract. With House of Cards, it’s another ball game. I don’t mean another ball game, in terms of status because I think they’re both top shelf shows, but there’s so much attention surrounding this season of House of Cards and so much speculation. I’ve been sent articles about the show that have falsely reported what’s happening. Collectively, as a cast, we’re not denying any rumors and we’re not addressing any of them. We’re just saying, “Okay, people really have a thirst for what’s going to happen,” but we don’t even know yet, so there’s that.

You weren’t on a path to becoming an actor. You were on the path toward a very different career. Had you always wanted to be an actor and just didn’t pursue it, or was there something that sparked that desire and got you to take that chance?

FERN: It was impossible for me to pursue, to be honest. I grew up in a town with just under three hundred people in Western Australia. When you think about being six hours outside the second most isolated city in the world, which is Perth, and then you think about the town that I’m from, which is called Southern Cross, acting is not a possibility. University feels like a world away. I went to uni and I studied commerce on a scholarship, and that was crazy and wild, in and of itself. I was never exposed to acting. I think the first real play I saw was when I was 22, and the first time I ever acted, and it wasn’t professionally, was when I was in 24, and that was in acting class. The concept of acting wasn’t something that was possible, but I’ve always known that I wanted to do it because I’d watched so many films and I was so engaged with them. It was an internal driving force, but it wasn’t a possibility. The short version of the story, in terms of whether there was a moment, really came from seeing Cate Blanchett in Elizabeth. That was the moment, as a teenager, that I really understand that this was what I wanted to do. Whatever she was doing was what I wanted to do. I didn’t have a concept of how she was doing it, of the structure around it or what it meant, but I knew that that was what I wanted to do. And then, seeing her ten years later in Elizabeth: The Golden Age, the lightbulb went off. The switch was flipped and there was no going back. It stimulated something where I realized, looking ten years back and looking at where I was in my life, at that point in time, what I was doing, what my trajectory was and what I was going to become, I knew that I had to change something rapidly. If I was going to do the thing that I loved so much, than I needed to do it. It wasn’t about wishing and dreaming and hoping. I actually needed to do it. That’s what changed everything.

One of the things that’s always true about everything Ryan Murphy is a part of is that he pushes all of his actors in ways that even they might not realize they’re capable of and they all get a chance to shine. How did your experience on American Crime Story change you and make you grow, as an actor?

FERN: That’s a great question. So much is said about Ryan being a creative genius, which he absolutely is. The word “genius” is thrown around too much and too often, and it should be reserved for people like Ryan. But then you meet Ryan, and you realize that not enough is said about how kind, how generous and how down to earth he is. He’s this mythological figure. When you meet him and you get to work on one of his shows, you’re already bringing everything inside of you – all of your skill, all of your talent and all of your willpower – because you’re working with Ryan Murphy and you know he’s the very best. You know that he’s the real deal. And then, he gets the best writers and the best directors. Daniel Minahan, who directed Episode 4, “House by the Lake,” and Episode 5, “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” is such a brilliant director, and that support structure was there. The thing that I’ve learned, working on this production, in terms of growth as an actor, is that it really is about risk. Ryan encourages you to risk everything. I don’t mean that just as one choice that you might make in a scene. It’s about everything.

It’s a state of mind, in acting. You have to risk being in a dangerous place, emotionally. You have to risk everything for the person that you’re in the scene with and you have to give everything up to the story. You’re working with a real person, on Versace. This is a person who was really murdered and whose story needs to be told. Viola Davis said that you exhume the body and tell those stories because they’re the stories that we need to hear, and you feel a responsibility to that. The thing Ryan does is trust you. He employs the very best people. Having somebody like Ryan put his faith in you, you bring your very best. I don’t think you’d last a day on set, if you weren’t bringing your best. Working on Versace, I learned to risk everything, to risk looking stupid and to risk everything, and to not leave anything behind. I learned to give everything over. You may fall and you may fail, but if you fail, he’s gonna be there to catch you and the material is gonna be there to catch you. You can’t fall very far. You’re not falling into concrete.

You had Darren Criss and Finn Wittrock to go through this with, and the work that the three of you did together is truly remarkable. How did you find the experience of working with them?

FERN: They’re so incredible. They’re such incredible people. Darren’s work is phenomenal. The thing about working with Darren is that he’s so off-the-cuff and improvisational within the material. I don’t mean that he’s making things up. Darren can give you 500 choices for delivering one line, and each of them can be true, so you really have to be on your toes with him. He keeps you alive, in the moment, because you don’t know how where he’s gonna go or how it’s gonna be played. That’s thrilling, as an actor. You can’t fall into the place of just giving a response that you’ve rehearsed. You don’t have that luxury, working with Darren. You’ve gotta be alive, in the moment. That is a real gift. And we just got along so well. It was the same with Finn. Finn is a very specific actor and he’s incredibly grounded in his work. The three of us knew the relationship between these three men. We start with the death, so we’re at the most intense point of the story, and then we get to unravel it backwards. We were all discovering it together. To build back, to a time and place where they were friends, they were lovers, and the times were golden, was great because we got to build that relationship as friends and chemistry is everything.

Since Ryan Murphy has a knack for getting his hooks into actors and not letting them go. Are you game to jump into any other world that he might have a role for you in?

FERN: I would work with Ryan, again and again and again and again, until the end of time. I know that that’s the way that everybody feels, working with Ryan. To work with Ryan again, I would jump into whatever world he wants me to. When you see the work that Sarah Paulson, Kathy Bates, Jessica Lange and Evan Peters have done, it’s incredible to see the roles that they’ve gotten to play. Denis O’Hare is one of the most underrated actors of his generation. I loved what he did in Hotel. There’s no way that I wouldn’t work with Ryan again. I mean, it always depends on the role and the script, but at the end of the day, I would work with Ryan again.

You’re still pretty new in your acting career, but you’re already also dipping your toe into writing and directing. What made you also want to get behind the camera and not just work in front of it?

FERN: I think that came from the fact that I’ve always known that I would eventually write and direct. That’s something that I’ve always wanted for myself. I just didn’t think it would happen so fast. The actual path towards the short film (Pisces), which was produced by Nancy Grant and Xavier Dolan, was because I was very frustrated, at the time. I had moved out to L.A. and I was always close to getting the roles, but just wasn’t getting them. I was working at such a high level that I was missing out on roles to people, like Dane DeHaan and Miles Teller. I’ve never met Joe Cole, but we’ve had this strange thing, where it’s always been down to myself, Joe and one other person. I was frustrated, so I was writing, at the time, and I thought, “Well, if I don’t get to do what I want to be doing and what I love doing, than I’m gonna make it happen for myself, and I’m gonna write, I’m gonna direct and I’m gonna act.” That propelled me in that direction. All of the skills informed each of the others. They’re not mutually exclusive. Writing really helps you, as an actor, directing really helps you, as an actor, and acting really helps you, as a director. I’ll be directing my first feature film in 2019. I’ve got a pretty full-on year, this year, but I’ll be going ahead with the feature, which will be produced by Nancy Grant. I can’t talk too much about what it will be, since I’ve gotta wait for the announcement, but I’m excited about directing my first feature. I really enjoy collaborating. Writing and directing was born out of a frustration of not being given the opportunities that I would have killed for, and that was taking me on one path, until Versace came along and House of Cards came along. Now, I’m being pulled on a different path, and that’s exhilarating.

Cody Fern on the Unique Career Path That Led Him to ‘The Assassination of Gianni Versace’

Darren Criss on Playing Gianni Versace’s Murderer: ‘It Is My Job to Humanize Him’

Darren Criss is making a (TV) murderer.

After years of being known as preppy singer Blaine Anderson on Glee, the actor takes a dark turn in American Crime Story: The Assassination of Gianni Versace as Andrew Cunanan — the serial killer known for shooting the Italian fashion designer on the steps of his Miami mansion and murdering four other men in 1997.

“I had a friend tell me when I got the part, ‘You’re playing the gay boogeyman,’” Criss, 31, tells PEOPLE in this week’s issue, on newsstands Friday. “I was like, ‘Excuse me?’ He was like, ‘When he was on the run, we would all spook each other [by saying] Andrew Cunanan is going to come get you.’ The things that are said about him in the show aren’t crazy.”

When it came to playing Cunanan, Criss wanted to make sure he was portraying all of the complex aspects of his character, which included everything from killing in cold blood to singing Laura Branigan’s “Gloria” at the top of his lungs in his car.

“Human beings are so complex,” he says. “We are capable of so many different emotions and the reasons behind those emotions. I’m not asking people to empathize or pardon anything that Andrew has done, but I do like people unconsciously figuring out how much they can relate to this person whether how little or how much.”

He adds: “It is my job to humanize him, but the hope is that we’re not glamorizing anything.”

The series, which is based on journalist Maureen Orth’s book Vulgar Favors, starts with Cunanan’s murder of Versace and moves backward through his killing spree. While viewers have now seen how all of Cunanan’s murders went down, Criss promises that scenes of his younger years are soon to come.

“That was some of the most fun stuff for me,” he says. “With someone like Andrew, I don’t think he had homicidal tendencies as a teenager. He was a lovable, fun, smart, gifted kid and it is confusing and heartbreaking and mortifying for people that knew him at that age to think he’d be capable of something like this later.”

Before filming, Criss says he knew just as much as “most people tuning in” about Cunanan — basically only that Versace was shot by a young half-Filipino man like himself.

“I met quite a few people who didn’t even know Gianni Versace was murdered,” Criss says. “What I’m getting to realize is that, for the most part, people didn’t know a whole lot about Andrew.”

Since taking on the role of Cunanan, Criss says people started to come up to him to share their stories about him.

“When he was alive, he literally was everywhere in the sense that he knew people, people knew him and he made himself the life of the party,” Criss says. “Even after he gained this degree of infamy that augmented his persona, people would have stories about him or think they saw him.”

Though the show has been met with its fair share of controversy — the Versace family slammed it as a “work of fiction” in January — Criss says he can understand why.

“I don’t blame anybody for having any reaction to this,” he says. “I mean, that’s their family member on TV. It’s completely understandable. You just hope the work speaks for itself and some good is brought through this.”

For Criss — who announced his engagement to his longtime girlfriend, Mia Swier, on Jan. 19 — the show’s success couldn’t come at a more exciting time.

“Some actors have to wait a lifetime for this kind of stuff,” he says. “This happened exactly when and how I would have liked it to happen in my life.”

He continues: “I just hope I don’t blow it from here!”

Darren Criss on Playing Gianni Versace’s Murderer: ‘It Is My Job to Humanize Him’

Ricky Martin and Edgar Ramirez on Challenging Homophobia With ‘The Assassination of Gianni Versace’

According to Edgar Ramirez and Ricky Martin, the fact that they’re playing partners Gianni Versace and Antonio D’Amico in the FX limited series “The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story” was “destiny.”

At the Television Critics Association Winter press tour, the pair told IndieWire that before “American Crime Story” executive producer Ryan Murphy invited Ramirez to star as the titular designer, the two were already acquainted. In fact, the day that Ramirez got the role officially, he and Martin had plans to do a gallery tour together in Los Angeles. “I entered the first gallery and said ‘Ricky, I’m sorry I’m late, I was just finalizing this call, I’m doing Gianni Versace.’ He was the first person I told,” he said.

“I was very happy for him,” Martin added. “Weeks later, Ryan called me and he tells me ‘I want to talk to you,’ he said. ‘Let’s have dinner.’ So I hang up the phone and I call Edgar, ‘Guess who I’m having dinner with tonight?‘”

Ramirez jumped in: “And I immediately said ‘Ryan Murphy, right? You’re going to be Antonio.’”

“He said it immediately,” Martin confirmed.

Ramirez continued: “You see all these elements of fate, of destiny?”

Martin wasn’t actively looking for a part like that of Versace’s longtime lover — or any part, really. “I was completely caught by surprise,” he said. “I had no idea. I was just moving to LA, of course always in my mind I was like, ‘If I’m going to do some acting, I would love to be surrounded by the right cast and great directors and great producers’ — and I gotta be careful with what I wish for, because everything happened. Yes, I’ve had the opportunity to do television series in the past in America and theater. But this is very significant and very important.”

“The Assassination of Gianni Versace” tracks (backward) the events leading up to the murder of the famous designer by the unbalanced Andrew Cunanan (played by Darren Criss). The reverse approach reflects a unique elegance and growing horror that’s quite different from the previous installment of “American Crime Story,” the Emmy-winning “The People vs. O.J. Simpson,” reflecting the change in writers. While “The People v. O.J. Simpson” was overseen by Scott Alexander and Larry Karaszewski, “Versace’s” scripts were driven by British writer Tom Rob Smith, whose 2015 BBC miniseries “London Spy” was a critical favorite.

Ramirez noted that Smith’s approach to “Versace,” ultimately, “really resonates with the Greek tragedies. So it really feels like you’re reading and watching a big Greek tragedy.”

Beginning the film with the death scene was an intense choice for Ramirez and Martin — especially given that they shot it right where it happened, on the front steps of Gianni Versace’s Miami home.

“My favorite days were shooting in the villa in Miami — there were very significant scenes of course, when I find his body and when the FBI is drilling Antonio to take information from him,” Martin said. “It was very powerful, very intense, draining. And I would go back to a hotel every night…Coming back to L.A. and being able to get in your car and go to the set was easier.”

“It was easier,” Ramirez agreed, “but it was great that we were lucky enough to start off in Miami so we could bring all their energy and all that mood with us to Los Angeles. It was great for everyone, not only the cast but everyone, to experience that and feel the colors and textures of the house, because that house represents everything that Gianni wanted in his life. That house was somehow the apotheosis of what he wanted his legacy to be. It’s a physical manifestation of what he had in his brain.”

The full scope of Versace’s brain is something that, having reached the midpoint of the season, we’ve now come to understand far better than before. After five episodes, we’ve witnessed not just Versace’s death, but more and more of his life. For viewers who weren’t familiar with Versace, it’s a fascinating exposure to his personal journey. Meanwhile, for those who did know the name, it’s a fascinating challenge to their understanding of who he was as a persona.

In Ramirez’s words, “The thing is, life and work for Gianni was the same. In terms of the relationship Gianni and Antonio had, they were love partners but they were also work partners…They were workaholics.”

This goes against the perceptions many associate with the House of Versace. “What comes to your mind first, also part of the legend and also part of the misrepresentation, is the parties and the sexuality and the alleged orgies and all these things that are part of the legend, and not the work,” Ramirez said. “[He was] a guy that would actually go to bed rather early and wake up very early as well, because he was more of a craftsman than this big celebrity that lived this larger-than-life existence.”

And that aspect, plus the way in which “Versace” delves into showcasing his abilities as a designer, only heightens the tragedy of the story — a great talent whose life was ended, in part, due to the fact the authorities didn’t take the manhunt for Andrew Cunanan seriously.

Said Martin, “One of the reasons I definitely said yes is because behind the story, there’s so much injustice in so many aspects. for example the fact that it’s not how he was killed, it’s why he was killed and why did we allow it happen. This guy was not hiding, he went on a killing spree, he was living in Miami Beach. He was on the list of the most wanted by the FBI, but he wasn’t caught. So they were looking the other way. They were looking the other way because it was a gay man killing gay people.”

“It didn’t represent a public threat at the time,” Ramirez said.

“So what I’m saying about this is,” Martin continued, “it’s important to bring some light to anything my community is going through.”

“I think [homophobia] is the underlying theme of the whole series, of the whole show,” Ramirez said. “Homophobia and how this death could’ve been prevented…I think that Ryan and his team, we’re so lucky to be part of them now. They’ve been so clever and keen to identify stories that are both dramatically gripping and at the same time they speak about the zeitgeist. They speak about greater subjects of humanity that are going on in society.”

Ricky Martin and Edgar Ramirez on Challenging Homophobia With ‘The Assassination of Gianni Versace’

Why Laura Branigan’s ‘Gloria’ Is the Perfect Song to an On-Screen Crime Scheme

Twice in the last month, the 1982 Laura Branigan hit “Gloria” has been used as a key plot device: to soundtrack the maniacal trance of a person about to commit a major act of violence. In “The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story,” Darren Criss, who plays serial killer Andrew Cunanan, sings along to the tune at top-volume while driving to his next crime scene in Miami. And in “I Tonya,” Sebastian Stan, in the role of Tonya Harding’s ex-husband Jeff Gillooly, listens to the song intently as he ponders how to handicap competing figure skater Nancy Kerrigan. Coincidence that both the Ryan Murphy series on FX and the Craig Gillespie-directed film feature men in their cars finding meaning in the post-disco pop song?

“I had no idea ‘Gloria’ was going to be in ‘I Tonya,‘” says “Versace” music supervisor Amanda Krieg Thomas. “I watched the movie as a complete bystander. It was very funny to see that.” (Jen Moss and Susan Jacobs handled music supervision for “I Tonya.”) But Thomas has since heard from others who took notice of the duplicate cue. Indeed it would be hard not to as both scenes illuminate the psychotic turn that the two men make. “It’s totally sugary 80s pop and that’s among the reasons why it works,” she adds. “But there are so many more levels to it, and why people have really responded to it.”

One of those reasons is that the song’s familiar synth-led Euro-dance melody both contrasts and accentuates the moment. “The recognition [factor] is part of why you want to use it — it’s not something that’s going to be buried in the background,” says Thomas, who notes that Murphy, “has an eye and an ear for what he wants … and we’re all in service to it. The recognizability of a song can be the creative brushstroke. And that’s something Ryan is great at.”

“Gloria” was, in fact, a quantifiable hit at the time of its release in 1982, eventually peaking at No. 2 on the Billboard Hot 100. It would end up spending 36 weeks on the chart. Curiously, the track was actually a cover of an Italian pop hit with new lyrics added in English. “That song was much bigger in the Italian language than it it was in English,” “Gloria” co-producer Greg Mathieson tells Variety. Originally asked to give the song a new arrangement, Mathieson decided to stay faithful to the original. “The engineer asked me, “Why are you doing this exactly the same?’ And I said, ‘It was a hit, I’m not going to mess with it!’”

Mathieson, whose credits include Donna Summer’s “Enough Is Enough” and Toni Basil’s “Mickey” (the latter a No. 1 song in Nov. 1982, the same week “Gloria” hit No. 2, a rare feat for a producer in an era long before Max Martin), has also gotten word of “Gloria” synchs. Asked why the song serves so well as an accompaniment to insanity, the now-retired producer posits: “I think they used it because of the juxtaposition of evil intent and the feeling that the song gives you, which is to get up and dance and have a good time. They’re trying to set up this dichotomy of pumping yourself up.”

Thomas concurs that Branigan’s “Gloria” provides “a great contrast when it’s surrounded by darkness” but there’s also the lyrical content about a person, like Cunanan, who is hiding in plain sight. “‘Gloria, You’re always on the run now.’ … Andrew is literally on the run,” she says. “Ryan wanted to think about music as what would Andrew’s taste be? What would he be listening to? What is his soundtrack? And this completely fits into that world [of] the young kid growing up in the 80s who was homosexual and going out to clubs.”

It’s worth noting that both “I Tonya” and “The Assassination of Gianni Versace” are based on true stories that took place in the ’90s, a good decade after “Gloria” stormed the charts with a priority push by then Atlantic Records head Doug Morris. “Gloria” the synch had also been somewhat dormant for a time, but in 2013, the Italian version popped up in “The Wolf of Wall Street” and the Branigan recording has since been placed in such shows as “The Last Man on Earth,” “Scorpion” and “South Park,” all in 2017.

There’s a reason for that, says Atlas Music Publishing CEO Richard Stumpf. “The spike is entirely due to Atlas taking over the Sugar Music catalog in 2016,” he explains, referencing the song’s Italian publisher. “We have doubled the annual sync. Kristen Bushnell Perez, our head of sync, and her team do an incredible job of promoting our songs.” (Warner Music Group owns the master of the Branigan version of “Gloria” while publishing for the song’s writers — Giancarlo Bigazzi, Umberto Tozzi and Trevor Veitch — is with Atlas.) “We selectively populate our musical pallet so that we have the top songs, from top eras available to pitch,” Stumpf adds. “By doing this, each song has a better shot at increased value. It also allows us to be lightening fast with license clearance. These are big factors  in raising sync levels for catalogs.”

Stumpf estimates that a song like “Gloria” can earn “millions” over the life span of its second act. “All evergreens, if managed properly, should be able to produce a high level of steady revenue,” he says. “But even the greatest garden, if not watered, will wither. Same with music. If songs are stuck at bloated publishers who can’t focus, they lose value. Our favorite thing to do is pick up catalogs from super-sized publishers and add value. A song like ‘Gloria’ can pull in six figures for film use and high six to seven figures for commercials. And that’s just the publishing side!”

Why does “Gloria” rise above the rest for major cues? The publishing executive also points to the song’s “sonic intensity” along with the imagery in the lyrics. “This is where music supervisors do a great job.”

Why Laura Branigan’s ‘Gloria’ Is the Perfect Song to an On-Screen Crime Scheme

Edgar Ramirez Discusses Playing Fashion Icon Gianni Versace

Playing larger-than-life fashion icon Gianni Versace isn’t a role Édgar Ramírez will soon to forget: the 20 pounds he put on for the part in Ryan Murphy’s The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story are a constant reminder.

“I had to gain weight, so I somehow kept the character with me all the time. I had to live with that weight for seven months. Every time I touched my belly or had heartburn, it reminded me of the show. Every time I couldn’t fit into my pants or was on a photo shoot and couldn’t fit into sample sizes, I was reminded that I was playing Gianni,” he confides ruefully.

It’s the night before the second season premiere of FX’s true-crime anthology, a highly anticipated follow-up to 2016’s much-feted, award-winning The People v. O.J. Simpson. The 40-year-old actor is in New York to promote the nine-episode series, an exploration of Versace’s murder that is based on Maureen Orth’s best-seller Vulgar Favors: Andrew Cunanan, Gianni Versace, and the Largest Failed Manhunt in U.S. History. Despite having a nasty cold—which hit him “like a truck” during Golden Globes week—and still toting around some of that extra, custom-designed Versace baggage, his passion for the project is palpable.

“What Versace did—the impact that he had on the history of fashion and culture—is undeniable. He basically changed fashion by marrying sexuality and glamour on an unparalleled scale. Right now, we live—for better or worse—in a time that was shaped by Gianni Versace. The culture of bling, the exacerbation of fame, the picture between cinema and fashion, and fame and celebrity is something Gianni helped to create,” he enthuses.

Sadly, the Italian-born designer’s death became as infamous as his life had been. He was shot and killed in cold blood on July 15, 1997, on the steps of his Miami Beach mansion after returning from a walk on Ocean Drive. He was the fifth victim of serial killer who committed suicide just eight days later.

Ramírez—like most of the world—was fascinated by the glittering Gianni Versace, but it was the chance to work with American Crime Story’s equally mesmerizing producer and creator that drew him to the role. “I want to be part of stories that are not only dramatically gripping—that grab you and don’t let go—but that also touch upon important subjects. This is the case for most of Ryan Murphy’s work—his stories are interesting, but also socially and culturally relevant,” he notes, before admitting, “The first thing that drew me to the project was Ryan. I’ve been a huge admirer of Ryan Murphy for a long, long time.”

That said, he still didn’t accept the role right away. In Hollywood, Ryan Murphy need only snap his fingers and say “Jump!” before any number of A-list stars would squeak “How high?” But not Ramírez. He wanted to be sure of the project before he signed on the dotted line, and bold as brass, told Murphy to “come back to [him] with another script.”

When we applaud his chutzpah, the actor is quick to set the record straight and maintain that he is not a diva. “I loved the script immediately, but just based on one episode, it was very difficult for me to understand how the character was going to be a force, and not just a presence,” he explains. “That was very important. I needed to read other episodes to be able to understand where the character was going. It’s not about the size of a character, it’s about how much of a force a character is within a story. I knew that the writers were going to be spectacular, but I wanted to understand the direction of the whole story. Ryan gave me my process and my space, so I said yes.”

He has another reason for being hesitant: He’s been burned before—and it only happened once—but he’s loath to let it happen again. “People can have the best intentions—and I can say I’ve always worked with well-intentioned people—but so many things can happen in a production. Things change, and then all you’re left with is promises when you’ve already taken on a project. For me, it’s very important to take responsibility of my choices,” he notes, before describing his most disappointing cinematic experience, in what was one of his first major roles.

“I was lucky that it happened early in my career, which made it actually painless in a way, because I learned that I have to do projects for the right reasons,” Ramírez says. “I wasn’t sure about the script and was more fascinated by the people I was going to work with, the scope of the project and the charisma of the director—who turned out to be a much better producer than a director and a writer. I was enchanted by his promises and how he pitched the movie to me. But it didn’t end up that way on the page, and I was already committed; [the character wound up being ] difficult for me to play.”

His starring turn in The Assassination of Gianni Versace is a role that he takes full ownership of. “What I said to Ryan is, ‘I have to be responsible for my choice, so that if I sign on regardless of what happens, I’m not going to blame anyone—you or the producers,’” he recalls, noting, “It’s not about having things my way, because that’s boring. I love to be surprised by material, but walking into the unknown I need to be sure that I’m being responsible for that leap. I need certain conditions to be met for me to open up to the adventure.”

Clearly, Murphy, along with the cast and crew, more than satisfied his requirements, giving Ramírez one of the top overall experiences of his career. “This is one of the best roles I’ve ever had the chance to play. I couldn’t be happier, and I have only great things to say about this experience,” he says, adding that he’s not only formed a life-long friendship with Murphy, but with co-stars Penélope Cruz, who plays Gianni’s sister, Donatella; Ricky Martin, as his longtime lover, Antonio D’Amico; and Darren Criss, as the killer Cunanan.

He formed a familial bond with Cruz in particular, whom he first met while filming the series in December and refers to as “a very good friend,” though the cast as a whole truly seemed to form a life-long bond. “It doesn’t happen very often, but we all became very close. It was one of those experiences where you know that everyone will be in each other’s life after this project,” Ramírez vows.

Their closeness was especially opportune given the sensitive subject matter. “It was a lucky strike that really helped the process, because this was a very intense shoot, and we had very [dramatic] scenes,” he maintains. “The family relationships within the Versace clan were volatile, and we had to have a lot of trust in each other. We had to really abandon ourselves to each other to really get to the core of the scene.”

The fiery Versace family hasn’t been particularly impressed with Murphy’s project, which, again, ais based on a nonfiction work. They released a statement in January asserting that they “neither authorized nor had any involvement whatsoever” in the series, and that it “should only be considered as a work of fiction.” A follow-up declaration was equally dismissive, announcing that the “Orth book itself is full of gossip and speculation” and was an “effort to create a sensational story” with “secondhand hearsay that is full of contradictions.”

Needless to say, Ramírez did not get in touch with any members of the Versace family—not his brother, Santo, niece, Allegra, nephew, Daniel, nor Donatella (who reportedly sent friend Penélope Cruz a bouquet of flowers wishing her luck)—while researching the role. Instead, he did his research by reading old interviews, and also managed to find friends of the late designer who were willing to talk and provided much-needed, personal insight into his life. “For particular reasons, we weren’t allowed to [approach the family], but I also knew it would be fruitless, and I didn’t want to do that. They weren’t open. The Versaces went through one of the most horrible tragedies in contemporary history, and it happened in the public eye. I knew this was going to be hard for them, so I didn’t want to reach out to them,” he admits.

That said, he is interested in hearing their thoughts after they’ve actually seen the series, which debuted on January 17: “I’m very curious to see what their reaction will be when the cat is finally out of the bag, and they see what we did, and that we did it with the utmost respect and compassion. It is not sensational. Our show is based on a nonfiction book by a highly respected female writer, and we stand by her reporting.”

After playing Gianni Versace, however, Ramírez very keenly feels the family’s grief. “In order to understand the massive loss that this man’s disappearance was, we really had to understand his creative process and how much love he had for art, for life, his family,” he notes. “In the most Italian of ways, he had such a hunger for life. He had such curiosity. He was such a disruptor, such a nonconformist. He tried to change the world in the best way he could. After having portrayed his life, it hurts more to know that he’s no longer with us.”

However, Ramírez did not have to shake off his sadness at the end of every day. Instead, he embraced the true essence of Gianni Versace. “I didn’t really need to get rid of the character every time I walked off set, because he was fun,” he admits. “It was nice to be him. It was nice to be that force.”

CARPE DIEM

Ramírez has always stood up for what he believes in, and does this even more so now that he has the world as his stage. “I have the opportunity to help others by the virtue of what I do,” he notes. “I have a great platform to give a voice to people who are underrepresented or don’t have a voice. I think that’s a part of my responsibility.”

He does this most frequently through HeForShe, a solidarity campaign for the advancement of women initiated by UN Women. The movement’s goal is to achieve equality by encouraging men and boys to become agents of change and to act against the inequalities that women face worldwide.

“[As a result of the campaign], I think that women have felt supported and more men have their backs. Men have felt encouraged to also join forces in trying to reach a more gender-equal world, which is the goal of the movement. Gender equality is a liberation movement for each and every person that has felt the burden of a gender stereotype, or like they’ve had to fit into an uncomfortable mold or felt the pain of discrimination,” he declares.

And no, he’s never been personally discriminated against, never had resistance or doubt in accepting a job, and that’s the point. Things shouldn’t always be easy, and if they are, you fight for others, in his opinion.

“[Discrimination] has never personally happened to me, but it’s been very close to me—my mom, my sister, my niece, my female friends. Not even when I decided to become an actor did I feel it. To have had the privilege to decide my life and what I am, that obliges you to help other people to have the same privileges,” he says.

Growing up in San Cristóbal, Táchira, Venezuela as the son of Soday Arellano, an attorney, and Filiberto Ramírez, a military officer, Ramírez was allowed to do as he pleased. His sister, Nataly, was not as fortunate. “I never felt that I needed to do something else, because my father’s expectations were different. I felt very supported at home. But my sister was not. For example, she wanted to become a pilot. She really knows how to drive a car. She wanted to become a race [car driver] and pursue that passion, but my father wouldn’t let her. I had the privilege to choose and decide my life, clearly,” he says. “My sister, cousins and friends didn’t have that choice. I had more opportunities to decide my life based on my gender. I was never criticized by my dad when I decided to become an actor. He said, ‘Okay, I guess you know what you’re doing,’ but I don’t know if it would have been the same thing if my sister had wanted to be that.” Incidentally, there are no hard feelings today in his household. “We are, as a family, trying to build opportunities for the next generation so they don’t feel the burden of a gender stereotype,” he says.

Ramírez, who is also a Goodwill Ambassador of the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) and supports Amnesty International, has always stood up for what he believes in. “I’ve always been an outspoken person since I was a kid,” he reveals. “I didn’t always know what I wanted to do, but if I wanted something, I was determined to get it.”

He had the freedom to try his hand at a variety of careers until he found one that fit. After graduating from Venezuela’s Universidad Católica Andrés Bello with a degree in mass communication and a minor in audiovisual communication with the intention of pursuing international relations, he tried a stint as a political journalist before working as executive director of Dale al Voto, a Venezuelan foundation similar to Rock the Vote. He also worked in promotions at one point before deciding to become an actor.

His first role of note was in the Venevisión soap opera Cosita Rica. His first major motion picture was Tony Scott’s 2005 film, Domino, and first blockbuster the 2007 action flick The Bourne Ultimatum. He has appeared in a plethora of films with big-name directors since his early days as an actor, including Steven Soderbergh’s Che; Kathryn Bigelow’s Zero Dark Thirty; andDavid O. Russell’s Joy. Other projects include Vantage Point; the 2015 Point Break reboot; Hands of Stone; The Girl on the Train; and, more recently, Gold and Bright.

He just wrapped Pablo Trapero’s thriller The Quietude with The Artist’s Bérénice Bejo in Argentina and will reunite with Robert De Niro for the third time in a top-secret project. Although he can’t talk about the film, he has plenty to say about De Niro, his co-star in Joy and Hands of Stone. “I’ve only done two films with Bob, but it feels like six because of the intensity of the films, but also because of the intensity of our relationship,” he shares. “I’ve been lucky to become very close to Bob, and he’s an important part of my life, not only professionally but also personally. We try to hang out as much as we can. He’s a great listener and a huge source of inspiration. He’s one of the most polite people I’ve ever met. He treats everyone equally, honestly. That’s very inspiring, especially in this day and age.”

At the end of the day, Ramírez is just looking for things that make him happy. “I’m in New York City right now, and I’m playing one of the most important parts that I’ve ever done and working with some of the greatest talents I’ve ever had the opportunity to work with,” he notes. “I just spent an amazing New Year’s Eve with my family. My father almost died this past year, but he made it [to the holidays] with us. I’m at a great moment in my life. It’s as good as it gets. Is it perfect? No, nothing’s perfect, but that’s part of the challenge. You’re always trying to make things a little bit better. Sometimes you nail it, sometimes you don’t, but you wait for the next day to make it better. I take things one day at a time.”

He references the destruction of his homeland, and the constitutional-crisis protests that swept Venezuela in 2017. “I come from a country that was destroyed by bigotry,” Ramírez says. “My country has been basically morally erased. Almost more than three million people have left the country. However, every time I walk through Buenos Aires [in Argentina], I see young people from my country that have fled there just happy that they’re alive, that they have a new slate in front of them. And that is beautiful. It gives me hope.”

We ask if he thinks his innate optimism—his hopefulness—has helped him navigate through life—the belief that if you want things to be wonderful, they will be. He mulls this over, and he agrees. “I think so. I always try to see the glass as half full and not half empty. I mean, there are days when I just see emptiness, sure—it’s not a constant thing—but most of the time, I have to believe that things can improve. Bad things, evil things just tend to be a little bit louder.”

But it’s in his personality to focus on the good, to live in the moment. He asserts that he’s happy with his path: “I’m very lucky. I also work very hard. I have great people around me, and I try to surround myself with people who have the same attitude. I’m at a very interesting moment [in my life]. But you know, if you had asked me 10 years ago, I would have said the same thing. I’m very open to what the day awaits.”

Edgar Ramirez Discusses Playing Fashion Icon Gianni Versace

Penelope Cruz talks making her TV debut as Donatella Versace

Today, platinum-haired powerhouse designer Donatella Versace is one of fashion’s most powerful women, but 20 years ago, she was a bereaved sister fighting for the future of her family’s Medusa-emblazoned megabrand. “Wow, Donatella!” is the first thing Penélope Cruz says to me when I mention her critically acclaimed role in American Crime Story: The Assassination of Gianni Versace, and the exclamation could well serve as the show’s unofficial subtitle. “To keep the company going in the middle of that huge, deep pain she was feeling – that’s real strength,” reveres Cruz.

Proximity to her own siblings is just one of the reasons that 43-year-old Cruz – dressed down today in a gray cashmere hoodie and blue jeans – is happy to be back in her native Madrid. London, where she lived last winter during the filming of Kenneth Branagh’s Murder on the Orient Express, reminded her that she is constitutionally unsuited to gray days and “a 4pm nighttime – it affects the brain,” she says in her accented purr. It was worth enduring a little seasonal affective disorder, though, for the bespoke performances she was able to coax from her co-star Josh Gad, aka the voice of Olaf the snowman in the Disney smash Frozen. Stored “like treasures” on her smartphone, she plays the audio clips to her kids when she’s in need of parental kudos. “I know Olaf, and that makes me the coolest mom in the world,” she beams.

For the rest of us, ‘Friend of Olaf’ doesn’t quite compare to Cruz’s other achievements, such as becoming the first Spanish woman to win an Academy Award, for her role in 2008’s Vicky Cristina Barcelona. As she pointed out in her acceptance speech, this was the stuff of dreams for a girl from the working-class Madrid suburb of Alcobendas, who headed to New York at the age of 19 to study dance. The film also reacquainted the actress with fellow Spaniard and Oscar winner Javier Bardem, who had, once upon a time, played a bullfighter and part-time underwear model opposite Cruz’s feisty factory worker in her breakout film, Jamón, Jamón. The pair married in 2010. So now there are two Oscars to polish – and two children to consider.

Naturally, that phone call was to Actual Donatella. As a red-carpet regular, Cruz has been dressed by the house of Versace on multiple occasions. “I said to Donatella, ‘This is keeping me up at night because it’s such a big responsibility to play someone who’s not only alive, but someone I respect so much.’ And she told me, ‘If somebody’s going to do it, I’m happy that it’s you.’ Her words gave me the freedom to do this. I think she could hear in my voice that everything was going to be done from a place of respect.”

Mastering Donatella’s voice, of course, was a key part of characterization. This was Cruz’s second Italian job – she starred alongside Sophia Loren in the 2009 musical Nine – but the designer’s distinctive manner of speaking was a departure. “Her voice is much lower than mine, and I worked for months and months with the voice coach Tim Monich. I was not interested in doing a caricature, an imitation; I want you to feel her there. Everything about Donatella is rock and roll – even when she’s just sitting in a chair, she does it with an attitude.”

To keep the attitude alive in the breaks between their scenes together, she and Édgar Ramírez, who plays Gianni, turned to music: “We listened to a lot of Prince, and a lot of opera. We thought that both were very Versace.”

Whereas attitudes towards race churned at the core of The People v. O.J. Simpson, sex and sexuality pervade this sun-drenched second season of American Crime Story. Gianni Versace was killed outside his Miami mansion by Andrew Cunanan (played by Glee alumnus Darren Criss), a fantasist who preyed on gay men during a time of widespread homophobia, and whose fascination with celebrity culture morphed into a murderous obsession.

“We’re telling a story that makes you think a lot about the craziness that’s going on in the world today,” muses Cruz. “It makes you question the concept of fame, and how some teenagers and very young people grow up idealizing something that is poison.” She’s concerned that social media is exposing us to pressures that were previously the exclusive preserve of celebrities who are, she says, at least somewhat better prepared. “It doesn’t matter if you are exposed to 200 people or two million – if you’re not equipped to deal with the pressure of opinion, manipulation and bullying, it’s dangerous.”

It’s impossible to touch on the topic of fame’s dark side without alighting on Hollywood’s recent sexual harassment scandal. After all, Cruz won her Oscar for her performance in a film written and directed by Woody Allen and produced by Harvey Weinstein.

I feel her hand tap my kneecap. “I know that you are going in that direction,” she says, before adding that she had no inkling of the scale of Hollywood’s problems prior to the revelations in the New York Times. She was aware, she clarifies, that certain high-profile men were “difficult to deal with on a professional level; that they were tricky, or did some bullying – that much was clear. But these other things that have come to light…” Her eyes widen.

She knows, of course, that Hollywood has very different attitudes towards men and women. “Since the age of 25, [journalists] have been asking me if I’m afraid of aging. It’s a crazy thing to ask, and I’ve always refused to answer. They would never ask a man such a question.

“Obviously that kind of thing is on a different scale to what we were just talking about, but everything builds up, and I consider it to be part of an overall suppression of women,” says an impassioned Cruz.

She’s emphatic that the recent disclosure of widespread abuse via the #MeToo movement must result in actions as well as words. “It has to change the rules of our industry and all the other industries in which women are being repressed in so many different ways. It cannot just be something that’s there to fill the news for a few months before we move on to something else.”

With her own daughter and son, Cruz says she’s found a novel way of shifting the gender narrative, quite literally. “Fairy tales matter so much because these are the first stories that you hear from the mouths of your parents,” she says. “So, when I read fairy tales to my kids at night, I’m always changing the endings – always, always, always, always. F*****g Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty and all of this – there’s a lot of machismo in those stories. That can have an effect on the way that kids see the world. If you’re not careful, they start thinking: ‘Oh, so the men get to decide everything.’”

Cruz’s subversive fairy-tale heroines, she says, are prone to declining proposals of marriage, or making the proposals themselves. An example? “In my version of Cinderella, when the prince says, ‘Do you wanna marry?’ she says, ‘No, thanks, ’cos I don’t want to be a princess. I want to be an astronaut, or a chef.’” Cruz laughs wickedly and closes an imaginary book.

No doubt, Donatella would approve.

Penelope Cruz talks making her TV debut as Donatella Versace