4YE Quicklist: 5 Podcasts To Indulge In For Your Commute, Road Trips Or Nights In

Still Watching: Versace

We’ve made no secret here how much we loved The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story, so I was so excited when Vanity Fair critic Richard Lawson and senior writer Joanna Robinson announced they were producing a 10-episode companion podcast. Each Versace episode is given it’s own episode where Lawson and Robinson discuss the episode in depth, the accuracy of the events portrayed referencing back to Maureen Orth’s book and other sources. They then interview people associated with the series on that episode, the series as a whole and a ton of behind-the-scenes trivia. The guests, including Maureen Orth, Darren Criss, Edgar Ramirez, Ricky Martin, Cody Fern, and Matt Bomer, are interesting, insightful and really giving in discussing the material and their experiences. If you loved the series, this is the perfect companion. Note, they are now discussing Westworld, but the Versace episodes are still available, you just need to scroll down. You can listen to Still Watching: Versace on iTunes.

4YE Quicklist: 5 Podcasts To Indulge In For Your Commute, Road Trips Or Nights In


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“Alone” with Nina Jacobson and Brad Simpson

Joanna Robinson and Richard Lawson discuss “Alone,” the final episode of The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story and how the show chose to portray the final days of Andrew Cunanan. More from star Darren Criss and Executive Producers Nina Jacobson and Brad Simpson are the featured interview.

American Crime Story Producers Are Hunting for Their Own Making a Murderer Season

Producing super-team Brad Simpson and Nina Jacobson are responsible, individually and collectively, for major money-making franchises like Diary of a Wimpy Kid and the Hunger Games. When they decided to try their hand at TV in 2016, with American Crime Story: The People v. O.J. Simpson, they hit ratings and awards-season gold. The second season of the FX franchise, titled The Assassination of Gianni Versace, wraps up Wednesday night to a slightly more muted reception, and the pair acknowledge that fans have wondered why there wasn’t more of the titular Versace family in this show.

“We’ve obviously seen the tweets,” Simpson said as part of a wide-ranging interview with Vanity Fair’s Still Watching: Versace podcast. “ ‘Oh, The Assassination of Gianni Versace is really Andrew [Cunanan]’s story.]’ There’s a lot of surprise and I think we were a little underprepared.” Jacobson and Simpson went on to explain how that reaction will impact the future of the American Crime Story franchise, and why, perhaps, we might not see any famous name at all in future season titles.

“We had done the People v. O.J. Simpson, which wasn’t really about O.J. Simpson,” Brad Simpson explains. “The surprise of that show was that O.J. Simpson was really a supporting character. After the first two episodes he just sits in court until the finale. Really it was about the lawyers. We were surprised by the way people thought the Versaces would be leads instead of supporting characters.”

According to Simpson, when the Versace team was figuring out episodes 3 and 4 of the season, which involve the deaths of Lee Miglin, Jeff Trail, David Madson, and William Reese, they felt it would be “disrespectful” to cut away from the deaths of these four men simply to spend time in the more luxurious and high-profile world of the Versaces. Though he concedes the story of the Versaces after Gianni’s murder was more “melodramatic,” he worried delving too deep into that world would result in criticizing the famous fashion family and break the rule of the season, which was to not “demonize” the victims in any way.

The finale, which was edited together a good deal after the first eight episodes, due to some availabilities, does, however, spend more time with Penelope Cruz’s Donatella Versace and Ricky Martin’s Antonio D’Amico—as well as a brief fantasy sequence with Edgar Ramirez’s Gianni Versace. But Simpson insists the increased Versace presence in the finale is not a reaction to audiences “clamoring” for more Cruz and Martin. “I honestly think if we had given people more Versace, they would have gotten tired of it.”

As for the future of the franchise, Jacobson said they are currently “up to our neck” in developing the next few seasons, which will reportedly still cover both the Hurricane Katrina disaster and the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky scandal. She acknowledges that pursuing true-crime stories that serve as a mirror for the clash between “who we say we are as Americans and who we actually are as Americans” doesn’t always result in the “fastest turnaround time,” but neither producer sounds at all rushed in their process of trying to get it right.

In fact, Simpson explains, that in order to find a story that says something “bigger and deeper and more disturbing about America,” the duo are “on the hunt for a story that people don’t know,” similar to Netflix’s smash true-crime docuseries, Making a Murderer. They want an “untold story for future seasons” and tease that everyone should “stay tuned” for that announcement. In the meantime, however, for all the fans who are still cross over the missing Versaces in The Assassination of Gianni Versace, Brad Simpson has a promise to make: “We’ll be more careful on how we title future seasons.”

American Crime Story Producers Are Hunting for Their Own Making a Murderer Season


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“Creator/Destroyer” with Matt Bomer

Joanna Robinson and Richard Lawson discuss “Creator/Destroyer,” the penultimate episode of The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story, including additional bonus segments with lead actor Darren Criss. This week’s featured interview is director and frequent Ryan Murphy collaborator Matt Bomer who discusses stepping behind the camera for his directorial debut.

Darren Criss on the Vulnerable Moments, Lesbian Subplot, and Skeet Ulrich Role Cut from American Crime Story

Fans watching American Crime Story: The Assassination of Gianni Versace will have noticed that the episode running times tend to fluctuate in length. This week’s episode, “Ascent,” clocked in at around 77 minutes with commercial breaks. Next week’s installment will be even longer. But in a wide-ranging interview with Richard Lawson on Vanity Fair’s weekly podcast Still Watching: Versace, series star Darren Criss reveals that, as is often the case, the first cut of each episode was initially much, much longer and entire subplots and characters wound up on the cutting-room floor. “I’d be curious to see the director’s cut because a lot of episodes ended up at 90, 100 minutes,” Criss explained. Whether or not viewers will ever see a director’s cut of the series, Criss shared a few of the gems audiences might be missing.

For one thing, there was an entire sequence involving Riverdale and Scream star Skeet Ulrich as a porn czar who rejected Andrew Cunanan’s attempts to find work in the industry. (According to Maureen Orth’s book Vulgar Favors: Andrew Cunanan, Gianni Versace, and the Largest Failed Manhunt in U.S. History, Cunanan was obsessed with pornography.) Criss explains:

There was this really interesting scene in the second episode where [Andrew’s] already on the lam. He hasn’t killed Gianni yet, but Andrew goes into—this happened, apparently—a small boutique porn studio … looking for work. Shout out to Skeet Ulrich, who got cut out of it. I really, really enjoyed his performance. He played this … porn Ziegfeld guy, producer dude, with his cigarette, sort of skeezy dude.

For more of what that Ulrich plot entailed—including Andrew going into a “berserk” rage that caused Criss to injure himself on set—you can listen to the complete interview. Though Ulrich mentioned having a part in American Crime Story, in interviews last year, the actor was snipped out of the marketing material for the show entirely. But Criss points out that you can see vestigial remains of some of the other cut storylines in trailers and promotional photos. Take, for example, this character portrait of Orange is the New Black star Dascha Polanco who played a Miami investigator in the first two episodes of the series and will likely return for the finale.

Though she’s captured here in a club scene, American Crime Story never reveals any information about Detective Lori Wieder outside of work. But according to Criss, there were lengthy scenes of Polanco’s character “going to the gay clubs and she was really kind of connecting the dots” in pursuit of Cunanan. “There’s huge sequences that we shot, huge parties and a lot of people, that took a long time that are just gone.” In the lengthier versions of the episodes, Polanco’s character’s familiarity with the gay scene in Miami came first hand: this more “prominent” version of her character was openly gay.

Critics and fans alike have noted the way The Assassination of Gianni Versace has broadened its scope far beyond the lives of slain designer Gianni Versace and his murderer Andrew Cunanan, to engage in a number of other themes and issues concerning the homosexual community in 90s America, including gays in the military, midwestern conservatism, the drug scene, H.I.V. survival guilt, and more. But for all the various male-gay-experiences represented in the series, American Crime Story is awfully light on any engagement with the lesbian community, despite the fact that several gay women orbited Cunanan’s social circle, and gave interviews to Maureen Orth.

As Criss laments, the dynamic between Polanco’s Detective Wieder and Will Chase’s Detective Paul Scrimshaw added a few more layers to those earlier episodes. Chase plays the “hardened straight-bro who is not necessarily homophobic, but just doesn’t really get it” while Polanco “had this whole thing of being this lesbian investigator that understood what was going on a little more.” Detectives Wieder and Scrimshaw are both characters named for real people who spoke to Orth, for her book, but in the context of the show act as composite characters.

Most of all, though, Criss says he misses a certain vulnerable scene between his character and Cody Fern’s David Madson. “You see [Andrew] with the phone in his hand and he’s saying, ‘David, I’m not the person that I said I was,‘ and there’s this real brutal, vulnerable moment of honesty, of unadulterated honesty that, as a viewer, you‘re like, ‘Oh. Oh, thank God. Oh, great,’ ” Criss recalls. “Then, it’s not real. Then, he finally calls David and he just says, like, ‘Hi. I had a great time. Bye,‘ and that’s it. It’s all those moments where you go, ‘Goddammit, no, man, you’re really … You were so close.‘”

These little missing scenes and characters are really just the tip of the iceberg of what Criss covered in nearly an hour of discussion with Still Watching: Versace. To find out more about the true story of Versace, Cunanan, and more, you can listen to the full interview with Criss—as well as past guests Maureen Orth, Ricky Martin, Max Greenfield, Judith Light, Cody Fern, Finn Wittrock, and more—by subscribing to Still Watching: Versace on Apple Podcasts or your podcast app of choice. New episodes of the podcast air every Wednesday night.

Darren Criss on the Vulnerable Moments, Lesbian Subplot, and Skeet Ulrich Role Cut from American Crime Story

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“Ascent” with Darren Criss

Joanna Robinson and Richard Lawson discuss “Ascent,” the seventh episode of The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story, delving even deeper into the past to show the problems surrounding the rise of Andrew Cunanan and the world of Versace.  This week’s featured interview is series star Darren Criss, who discusses bringing the spree killer to life, some little known facts, and some deleted scenes. | 7 March 2018

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Still Watching: Versace

Joanna Robinson and Richard Lawson discuss “Descent,” the sixth episode of The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story, tracking Andrew Cunanan deeper back in time. This week’s featured interview is director of this week’s and next week’s episodes of American Crime Story, frequent Ryan Murphy collaborator Gwyneth Horder-Payton. 

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“Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” with Finn Wittrock

Joanna Robinson and Richard Lawson discuss “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell,” the fifth episode of The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story, and find time to mention representation at the Winter Olympics. This week’s featured interview is stage actor and frequent Ryan Murphy collaborator Finn Wittrock who talks about playing Jeff Trail and tracking his performance over multiple episodes.

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Versace: Why David Madson Didn’t Try to Escape Cunanan

Wednesday’s episode of American Crime Story: The Assassination of Gianni Versace flashes back to the disturbing start of Andrew Cunanan’s multi-city murder spree—when Cunanan killed two friends, Jeff Trail and David Madson, in Minnesota. Because there were no witnesses to the crimes—and everyone involved is dead— there is no way to know exactly what transpired in April 1997 inside Madson’s apartment, where Trail was found murdered, or on the drive approximately 60 miles north to Rush City in May, where Madson was found dead.

“Tom Rob Smith, the writer, had to invent a lot of what had happened based on what we knew from the crime scene and we knew about Andrew and David,” American Crime Story executive producer Brad Simpson explained on Vanity Fair’s Still Watching podcast this week. “We know there was this murder and then we know they were in a car together, and we know that David begged for his life at the end, but we had to fill in what might have happened during that time.”

The puzzling sequence of events has always left one burning question—why didn’t David Madson escape in the days after Trail’s murder? In June 1997, Newsweek plainly stated that “Madson’s role remains hard to figure out. He apparently made no effort to leave.” Even more confounding, “neighbors saw the two men walking Madson’s dog the day after Trail’s murder.”

Vanity Fair contributor Maureen Orth addressed this mystery in her 1997 reportfor this magazine. Gregg McCrary, senior consultant of the Threat Assessment Group and former supervisory special agent of the F.B.I.’s Behavioral Sciences Unit, said that Cunanan’s influence over Madson was “to a degree Stockholm syndrome,” explaining, “these sexually sadistic offenders have that ability to control people—not necessarily physical control. Many times it’s just out of fear.”

“They have a sixth sense of who they can manipulate and control,” McCrary said. “Their interpersonal skills are so strong, and their ability to target these victims, to understand their needs, to meet these needs and fulfill them, are so developed that in return these victims always feel obligated.”

Even before Trail’s murder, Cunanan had given Madson reason to fear him—claiming to have connections to the mob and “bragg[ing] about getting someone killed the day the person left prison, because he had ratted on a friend of Andrew’s.” Cunanan and Madson had met in a San Francisco bar in 1995, when Cunanan spotted the handsome architect and sent him a drink. Orth reported that the relationship escalated over the next year, but cooled off in the fall of 1996 when Madson suspected Cunanan of what Newsweek called “shady dealings.”

When Cunanan flew to Minneapolis, friends of Madson’s said the architect seemedunhappy about picking Cunanan up at the airport. Another friend told People that Cunanan was still besotted with Madson. Madson, on the other hand, “thought Andrew was a little shady, secretive…David didn’t want to be alone with him.” According to Orth, however, Madson was “a peacemaker who avoided confrontation” and “wanted to save people”—personality traits that also help explain why Madson acted the way he did.

“Those six days where David was with Andrew was the most fascinating part of this story to me because, I mean, what do you do as a human essentially being kidnapped after seeing something like that?” Cody Fern, who played Madson, told Still Watching. “How do you get through six days?”

Smith said that one eyewitness offered context about the duo’s relationship in the days after Trail’s murder: “An eyewitness saw the two of them walking together and David had been crying and Andrew was chatting at him really quickly. So that really gave the sense of one person who’s distraught and one person who is trying to cajole them into going on the run together.”

Fern said that, to prepare for the role, he read over 50 postcards and letters that Cunanan sent Madson—illustrating Cunanan’s eery detachment from reality. “Andrew would write to David when he was traveling or pretending to travel. He was in France or he was in Prague. The way he communicated through the letters it was very clear they had a special relationship. Not knowing everything that comes later it was the beginning of a beautiful love story.”

In “House By the Lake,” Smith scripts a scene where Madson actually gets the opportunity to escape. After Cunanan and Madson leave Minneapolis in Madson’s Jeep, they stop at a roadside bar and restaurant to get sustenance. Captor and hostage sit, listening to Aimee Mann perform live, and Madson eventually makes his way to the bathroom—where he finally gets a moment alone.

“The key image for me in the entire piece is when David Madson almost escapes,” said Smith. “He’s in the restroom of a bar and he looks out the window at the world and he sees the world passing him by. You’d think when you’ve been kidnapped by a killer that freedom is going to be a thing that’s incredibly exciting—you’re desperate to get to.”

But to Madson, the greatest tragedy of these final hours was that, as a gay man in the 1990s, the outside world does not offer a much better alternative. Smith explains:

“He looks out the window and thinks, ‘What am I escaping to? Disgrace? Hatred? There is no freedom.’ The world that is beyond this window that in every other thriller he would have climbed out of and run screaming for help—there is no help. The people coming to arrest Andrew Cunanan would also arrest him because there’s no way they would believe he had nothing to do with Jeffrey Trail’s death. ‘They’ll hate me like they hate him because they hated me before.’”

Months later, Jean Rosen, the owner of the Full Moon Bar & Restaurant where the real Cunanan and Madson ate lunch the afternoon of May 2, remembered seeing the men.

“Madson seemed jumpy. He looked over his shoulder every time the front door opened,” reported the L.A. Times. “But whatever he feared, it didn’t seem to be his companion.”

Versace: Why David Madson Didn’t Try to Escape Cunanan

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“House by the Lake” with Tom Rob Smith and Cody Fern

Joanna Robinson and Richard Lawson discuss the fourth episode of The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story, which focuses on a very personal murder. This week’s featured interviews are episode writer Tom Rob Smith and Australian stage and screen actor Cody Fern who portrays David Madson on the series. | 7 February 2018

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